Session Start: Tue Feb 16 07:57:49 2016 Session Ident: #mt-confidential [07:57] * Now talking in #mt-confidential [07:57] * ChanServ sets mode: +o RayKremer [08:01] * RayKr3mer has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [08:07] * chemiclord has joined #mt-confidential [08:07] * ChanServ sets mode: +o chemiclord [08:48] * pirokonyan has joined #mt-confidential [09:01] <@pirokoro> so, if Miho goes a bit primal here.... [09:01] <@pirokoro> im sure people will be 'i just dont understand anymore' [09:01] <@pirokoro> and 'i wish we could just get back to the main story' [09:02] <@pirokoro> i suddenly feel what rodney felt so many years ago. i want to kill off most of the characters [09:04] <@RayKremer> people don't like the mystery of miho anymore, huh? [09:05] <@RayKremer> main problem is most of the rest of the story threads are at a point were they could be coneniently stopped or wrapped up quickly [09:06] <@RayKremer> Miho is the main thing going [09:07] <@pirokoro> well, the one big thing sitting there ready is piro and kimiko ad the game [09:08] <@pirokoro> a lot of things really have come to reasonable places out there [09:08] <@pirokoro> so what happens is you start exploring other characters a bit, which ive done [09:09] <@pirokoro> i know how these sorta things can go bad, and i dont want this to go bad [09:10] <@RayKremer> Really you have this trinity of girls, Kimiko Erika and Miho, as the foci of exploring the behaviors of fandoms [09:10] <@RayKremer> Erika's pretty much settled as far as that goes [09:11] <@RayKremer> Kimiko has been through much of it now, the game release would probably stir it up again but that's way in the future [09:11] <@RayKremer> Miho's in the fallout phase of her big arc and you can't avoid that [09:12] <@RayKremer> and then whatever it is you still have planned for Ping in terms of trying to hack the happiness of the fan hordes [09:13] <@RayKremer> Get through that, and the grand MT thesis is complete and you could move on to scatterings or whatever it's called these days and MugiTokyo. [09:18] * @pirokoro grimaces [09:18] <@pirokoro> that sounds pretyt dismissive of the MT story [09:19] * @pirokoro sighs [09:19] <@pirokoro> its the problem all stories face when it comes to sequels and stuff [09:19] <@pirokoro> really, with largo and erika, anything with them is basically sequel [09:19] <@pirokoro> things with piro and kimilo are mor wrapped up in Miho's big story here than being their own [09:19] <@RayKremer> Most long runners eventually settle into distinct story arcs [09:20] <@RayKremer> which if they were novels or movies would be sequels, yes [09:20] <@pirokoro> thing is, in reading the manga ive been liking a lot, looking at older MT, etc [09:20] <@RayKremer> Not dismissive, just getting to the core of it, or the core of what it's become [09:20] <@pirokoro> its like i know what i can do best, and yknow what the problem is - im trying to continue with something that is past its finish [09:21] <@pirokoro> for the things i like to do [09:21] <@pirokoro> its like ive run through a lot of the machinations with characters i have right now [09:21] <@pirokoro> which is why its fun to have mugi in there and some others [09:21] <@RayKremer> what you're saying is you've done all that can reasonable be done with the existing characters [09:23] <@RayKremer> All the more reason to finish Miho's arc and wrap things up [09:23] <@pirokoro> no, im just struggling with it because this is not the kind of comicking that i am good at [09:23] * @pirokoro sighs [09:24] <@pirokoro> im getting so tired of struggling all the time [09:24] <@RayKremer> Alright, so what is it you've identified as what you are good at/like to do? [09:27] <@pirokoro> well, im really good at what happens when characters are just getting to know each other [09:27] <@pirokoro> initial reactons, initial directions, back and forth, etc [09:27] <@pirokoro> or say when the audience is getting to know them [09:27] <@pirokoro> its like discovery [09:27] <@pirokoro> and i share that with readers [09:27] <@pirokoro> problem with MT is i REALLY have explored a lot of the characters REALLY thouroughly [09:28] <@pirokoro> what i am NOT good at is just story exposition [09:28] <@pirokoro> you know, 10 pages of a fight scene, rote grinding to follow the threads to the end everyone expects [09:28] <@pirokoro> at this poiint in MT its like a visual novel where the deciions where things are gonna go have long been made and you just need to read on to the end [09:29] <@pirokoro> im not being morbid btw, im just been doing a lot of thinking [09:29] <@pirokoro> nothing i hate worse than when a long running story starts to really go stale and boring [09:29] <@pirokoro> i really dont want to see that happen to MT [09:29] <@RayKremer> Well, it's hard to not have an ending after all of it [09:29] <@pirokoro> yeah [09:29] <@pirokoro> and im keen enough to roll onto the next thing, but of course wrapping up MT stories [09:29] <@pirokoro> IS a big task [09:29] <@RayKremer> But right, what you are saying is you've run out of things to do with these people [09:29] <@pirokoro> and not a bad one really [09:30] <@pirokoro> no, i can do things, but i find that their reactions to just about anything i can throw at them, we already know [09:30] <@pirokoro> does that make sense? [09:30] <@pirokoro> thats why sequels are so... meh so often [09:30] <@RayKremer> from a literary standpoint, that's what out of things to do means [09:30] <@RayKremer> that's what I meant by it, sorry [09:30] <@pirokoro> you either are just visiting old friends [09:31] <@pirokoro> or you are having to change the comfortable point they reached by dismantling their lives and trying to get them to change again [09:31] <@pirokoro> and that is rarely comfortable [09:31] <@pirokoro> you ever read Tomochan is a Girl? [09:31] <@RayKremer> Some stuff lends itself to just having formulaic adventure after formulaic adventure [09:31] <@pirokoro> =yes exactly [09:31] <@pirokoro> and i HATE that [09:32] <@RayKremer> but for things where the character really change, once that's done you really don't want to do anything else with them [09:32] <@pirokoro> i find myself going 'ok, i cant forget yuki, she needs to be drawn into this etc [09:32] <@pirokoro> yes, because the characters, you know them, you are happy with where they ended up [09:32] <@pirokoro> you know like stories where you have this satisfacory ending and you feel warm fuzzies about it [09:33] <@pirokoro> sequel, something bad happened and it dismantles what was gained in the first one [09:33] <@pirokoro> that... i hate that [09:33] <@RayKremer> that's why I meantion thesis, there is a thesis level that some stories have above the character level [09:33] <@RayKremer> and you've done that [09:33] <@RayKremer> exploring big ideas using the characters [09:33] <@pirokoro> yeah [09:33] <@pirokoro> and thats great but... [09:34] <@pirokoro> its not the fun part of doing a story [09:34] <@RayKremer> Well, I suppose not [09:34] <@pirokoro> well, not so much not fun [09:34] <@RayKremer> or not for you at least, and that's allowed [09:34] <@pirokoro> but not the part that i am best at [09:34] <@pirokoro> and i think that i CAN do this stuff [09:34] <@pirokoro> but i think yeah, i did sorta end up diving for the end of things here with what happned to miho [09:35] <@RayKremer> all of it is part of everything, but for you, for megatokyo, you started not knowing where you were going [09:35] <@pirokoro> and i should do what i did years ago [09:35] <@pirokoro> time to wrap it up - go for that end game [09:35] <@pirokoro> and the funny thing is, that led to it growing more [09:35] <@pirokoro> this might not grow, this is a far mor mature story [09:35] <@RayKremer> I could never start a story without having the end planned [09:35] <@pirokoro> but maybe i can wrap it up really well [09:35] <@pirokoro> and for me, stories dont stop, they just hit satisfactory points [09:35] <@RayKremer> of course [09:36] <@RayKremer> the lives of the characters go on [09:36] <@RayKremer> but the notable part about their lives, the part that changes them [09:36] <@RayKremer> that reaches a place where it's done [09:36] <@RayKremer> where you can stop telling it [09:37] <@pirokoro> the thing about Junepi and the ninja thing [09:37] <@pirokoro> its not just 'hey lets do somethign crazy' [09:37] <@pirokoro> Miho is a failed analogue [09:37] <@pirokoro> but if you think about Ninjas [09:37] <@pirokoro> they are analogue as a group [09:37] <@RayKremer> interesting! [09:37] <@pirokoro> and i think that is where this is going [09:37] <@pirokoro> and i like it [09:38] <@pirokoro> it ties in some things about a analogue being ONE person, one story [09:38] <@pirokoro> but monsters, ninjas and other things, they are more of like an analogue as a group [09:38] <@pirokoro> even zombies [09:38] <@pirokoro> and i feel like there might be wisdom there that can come out of this [09:38] <@pirokoro> so, im fascinated and i think i can totally make excellent thesis hay out of this [09:39] * @RayKremer nods [09:39] <@pirokoro> but there will always be that 'i miss the old days' form a lot of people [09:39] <@pirokoro> and i swear - its not really my faiult [09:39] <@RayKremer> that's true of damn near everything [09:39] <@pirokoro> its the nature of a really mature story like this [09:39] <@pirokoro> you know how i blame myself for everything [09:39] <@RayKremer> You know X-files? [09:39] <@pirokoro> im feeling really low these days [09:39] <@pirokoro> oh yes, it is my KEY example of what i worry about [09:39] <@pirokoro> awesome show that... slowly died on the vine [09:39] <@pirokoro> and left fans abandoned at the end [09:39] <@pirokoro> i dont want to do that [09:40] <@RayKremer> right, well, the six-ep mini series they are in the middle of is really good, return to the old days [09:40] <@pirokoro> and i do NOT want to do the standard 'well that was a lame wrap up' that is so common with anime [09:40] <@pirokoro> yes, it can be done, if you are aware and try [09:40] <@pirokoro> so yeah, im trying [09:40] <@RayKremer> so sometimes things need to step away for fresh ideas [09:40] <@pirokoro> well, i had that year off [09:40] <@pirokoro> and i swear, i had to for that reason [09:40] <@RayKremer> ha, indeed [09:41] <@pirokoro> so i hope i can do this [09:41] <@pirokoro> weak miho is over. shes not weak, we've seen that [09:41] <@pirokoro> she needs to start getting mad. [09:41] <@pirokoro> shes facing doom [09:41] <@pirokoro> does she just wilt and sob behind piro and cry?? [09:41] <@pirokoro> no [09:41] <@pirokoro> shes... upset, and shes not a weak person [09:42] <@pirokoro> because thats the analogue she hates so much [09:42] <@RayKremer> The thing I see about Miho, [09:42] <@RayKremer> we weren't quite sure what would actually happen if the horde caught her, the real her, except that it would be bad, divide by zero bad [09:43] <@RayKremer> this is the thing she never even considered, but it's a similar level of no frame of reference for what happens now, what the fallout is [09:43] <@RayKremer> so she has to navigate that [09:44] <@RayKremer> and realize in the end that she's still here, and she can go on, and that Piro is inevitably a part of that [09:46] <@RayKremer> and, she's been so long in a life she doesn't want, she needs to discover there is still a life that she can want [09:46] <@pirokoro> yeah, thats really part of it [09:47] <@pirokoro> its like beign caught by the horde [09:47] <@RayKremer> Hell, if she liked travelling so much back in the day, maybe they should do that, her and Piro [09:47] <@pirokoro> but at least when that happens, she does die [09:47] <@pirokoro> but now, she wont die, shes ok [09:47] <@pirokoro> and her life continues where it stopped off [09:47] <@pirokoro> thats true [09:47] <@pirokoro> in fact, that might be where this goes [09:47] <@pirokoro> one thing that is a mix in this [09:47] <@pirokoro> kimiko's reaction to everything [09:47] <@RayKremer> Piro leaving the city and Largo staying with Erika, that would be a great capstone. The splitting of our two original characters, and the reverse of what we would have expected as far as who stays in tokyo [09:48] <@pirokoro> hehe, yeah, i think that IS where its going actually [09:48] <@pirokoro> dont laugh, one thing i thought would be hilarious would be miho finding out shes pregnant at the end - thats never happened before :P [09:48] * @RayKremer smiles [09:49] <@pirokoro> thank you for talking this out with me a little [09:49] <@RayKremer> Always, dude [09:49] <@pirokoro> i know im a pain, but damnit, i want MT to be good, to be reasonably good [09:49] <@pirokoro> i owe that to readers [09:49] <@RayKremer> I think that's well within reach [09:50] <@pirokoro> hard to do the fresh love of new main characters [09:50] <@RayKremer> the people who will always find something to complain about aside [09:50] <@pirokoro> but if i can give things a good direction [09:52] <@RayKremer> heh, you know it is funny, it kind of emerged early on, Piro is the one that should be able to live easily in Tokyo, knows the language and culture [09:52] <@RayKremer> Largo doesn't fit at all [09:53] <@RayKremer> But Largo finds a way to be at home whereever he is, and Piro is the one worried about getting them home [09:53] <@RayKremer> although I wonder if that's more out of concern for getting Largo home than himself [09:54] <@RayKremer> and now you have Erika keeping Largo in check far better than Piro ever could [09:54] its sorta caused largo and piro to drift apart a little [09:54] people talk about miho being unhappy [09:54] piro is really not happy [09:55] <@RayKremer> they always were a bit of an Odd Couple [09:55] largo doesnt really need him - hes used to being the support for the crazy idiot [09:55] he even got EMT training to keep the idiot alive [09:58] <@RayKremer> Anyway, let all that sink in. I think it will be easier to parse the VN big picture stuff once the comic is over, that will still be a monumental project, but you will be able to focus better on Warmth too [10:01] <@pirokoro> i need to get my head just ON these things and do them [10:02] <@pirokoro> but right now i have no way of covering any of my bills this month AND i still have tons of shipping to do that i cant cover [10:02] <@pirokoro> and so i have all that just freaking me out on top of it all [10:02] <@pirokoro> now that all the other shit from my family has decided to just leave me alone [10:03] <@pirokoro> well, some time to get some artworks up for sale will do it, just gotta do it [10:03] * @pirokoro goes back to work [10:07] <@pirokoro> i know this sounds terrible [10:08] <@pirokoro> but ive been considering doing a very simple 4 panel comic, a totally new idea, just to... show i can still do it right [10:08] <@RayKremer> "Applegeeks lite" [10:08] <@pirokoro> step back from pushing so hard with the art [10:08] <@pirokoro> sort of, but not MT [10:09] <@RayKremer> I kind of expected that's what MugiTokyo would be, but something non-MT would be fun too [10:09] <@pirokoro> yeah [10:10] <@pirokoro> it might free up the frustration a little [10:10] <@pirokoro> and the thing is - simple. stop with the overdone art [10:11] <@pirokoro> its like i have spent years trying to overcome my self-pesercribed lack of good on the art and ended up not seeing that what i was doing with the story and dialogue was good [10:11] <@RayKremer> which was the point of applegeeks lite [10:11] <@RayKremer> they just reused their existing characters for it [10:12] * @chemiclord has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [10:47] * Invisigoth has joined #mt-confidential [10:47] * Invisigoth has quit IRC (Changing host) [10:47] * Invisigoth has joined #mt-confidential [10:47] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Invisigoth [10:48] <@Invisigoth> been a while since I got on IRC from my laptop [10:49] <@RayKremer> j0 dud3 [10:53] <@Invisigoth> for some reason my home game PC will reboot constantly [10:53] <@Invisigoth> :P [10:53] <@Invisigoth> one update after another [10:55] <@pirokoro> hey invisi [10:55] <@pirokoro> boy, that conversation we had earlier would probably interest invisi [11:04] <@RayKremer> I can toss it up somewhere [11:06] <@Invisigoth> I'd love to see it:)